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Post by sector9russell on May 30, 2016 21:07:41 GMT 12
Hi
can you tell me the minimum thickness I can go with polycarbonate Windows which will replace rear window, rear quarter Windows and front quarter Windows these are the Windows above the doors?. Front will be staying oem glass, car is classic Subaru and is a race car which I want to keep road legal.
Txs
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Post by Leon on May 31, 2016 8:28:12 GMT 12
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Post by sector9russell on Jun 1, 2016 14:43:32 GMT 12
Hi Leon
Thanks for the reply. Is there a list of lvvta accepted rigid plastic materials? Can't seem to find that anywhere.
Txs
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Post by Leon on Jun 1, 2016 14:57:03 GMT 12
Hi Russell, the below is a copy / paste of our standard glazing reply Note, if you're looking at MotorSport Authority Card Approval (which is possible instead of LVV cert for that specific item), you are limited to the Lexan MR10, or the Cyrolon AR2 product.
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Post by sector9russell on Aug 11, 2016 10:34:08 GMT 12
Hi Leon
You quoted for authority card I can only use the two specified above.
Just to be clear , if I go lvvta and cert I can get more options road legal? I have bought hard coated polycarbonates from plastics4performance which supply fia approved and all the top race cars both rally and circuit and the Windows are Moulded to be exactly like factory Windows.
I have had the Windows e marked to prove suitability for road use. This is hard coated polycarbonate.
The e mark quotes the following.
VIII/B/M ARLA SAPHIR PC E5 43R-00063 PLASTICS 4 PERFORMANCE
Do you have any idea if this is suitable for a road legal car?
Txs
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Post by Leon on Aug 12, 2016 13:12:15 GMT 12
Hi Russell,
I sent this question to our engineer along with some raw meat to settle him down a bit.
Unfortunately no, this doesn't seem to be suitable for road vehicle use, as the abrasion resistance test that is referenced by those etched characters indicates is not comparable to the ANSI Z26 standard.
10% haze over 500 scrubbing cycles.
As compared to 2% haze over 1000 scrubbing cycles.
So this means that it is possible that this glazing will become difficult to see through, far more rapidly. He wasn't specifically familiar with the brand name of the product, so the decision is based on the E mark information.
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Post by sector9russell on Aug 12, 2016 16:48:11 GMT 12
Hi Leon Please see links below. Is this the info you sent to the engineer for approval? I read this as 2 percent haze over 100 scrubbing cycles, for ARLA SAPHIR. www.arlaplast.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/08/SAPHIR.pdfAnother data sheet for Lexan MR 10 below, it reads 1-4 percent haze for 100 cycles. Surely this is comparable? www.professionalplastics.com/professionalplastics/content/downloads/LexanMR10_DataSheet.pdfLexan mr5 data sheet below, the only lexan product data sheet I can find showing info for more than 100 cycles, this shows for 500 cycles a Haze value less than 12%, and this is an approved product. www.gcip.co.uk/pdf/LEXANMARGARDMR5E.pdfI'm failing to see your engineer's point on this material. Where did this 10% value come from? not one data sheet I have read quotes 2% for 1000 cycles for MR 10, in fact all data sheets and the abrasion test itself ANSI Z26 are performed over 100 cycles as per the method quoted in this standard, (subsection 5.12.2.4, method of test). Another data sheet for Makrolon AR linked below, this gives the same result as the ARLA product, 2% haze at 100 cycles, at 500 cycles it is also less than 9% and this material is on your approved list. www.mulfordplastics.com/_literature_77600/Makrolon_AR_Data_SheetI have emailed the company that provided the specialist Windows and they responded: The Arla Sapphir carries exactly the same type approval as lexan, ECE-R43 and the approval is valid throughout the world, same as it is with Lexan. I have attached some official documentation for you from Arla so you should not have any problems at all. But please let me know if you do, or you need any further documentation , Im here to help you as we want you to be happy with your purchase.
Best Regards Paul Davenport Sales Team Plastics 4 Performance Unit 5 Belmont Works Belmont Bolton BL7 8AGUnited KingdomTel +44 (0) 1204 811 277 Fax +44 (0) 1204 811 307 I have attached the official documentation as per the email response from plastics4performance above. As well as a letter written to them from the lexan manufacturer showing the e marking for their product, as you can see it's exactly the same approval codes as the ARLA product. Please can you check this out as I've tried to do everything correctly and I'm now looking at a huge cost to rectify this. This product is used on road legal cars in the uk, Europe and worldwide. Thanks for your help in this. Attachments:Arla E Mark Summary.pdf (302.56 KB)
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Post by Leon on Aug 16, 2016 8:27:57 GMT 12
Hi Russell,
Our engineer has done some further investigation, based on the information you've provided to us here (so thanks for that, it looks like you've helped uncover that some suppliers are claiming compliance using a test cycle that's meant to be applied to flexible plastic rear windows in a convertible, as compared to hard side windows!).
Given that the material you are using is equivalent to another accepted material, we can accept this material.
Looks like we've now got some more investigating to do, to see what international motorsport regulations expect from plastic glazing.
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