49 Hudson Frontend

[kustomkreeps]

hey ya

im just starting a new project : 1949 Hudson 4dr.

I have been chatting to the local cert chap and everything is sounding good.
One area im am worried about is my front end.

hmm im getting ahead of my self.

So what i plan to do first...
rip out the old straight 6 , drive train, suspension and brakes.
Putting in a 401 Buick Nailhead, 700R4 monster transmission, moser 9inch, Ridetech triangulated 4 link with shockwaves, wilwood brakes.
Nows the bit im kinda stuck on.
I was planning to use a Fatmans front stub with a MII kit that has shockwaves, swaybar, Power steering, wilwood brakes. It comes with all the bolt holes for panels, rad etc etc just weld in.

I was told NZ cert and Fatmans dosnt always go to well. So i went off to chat to my cert chap for an hour or so as I laid out my build. he said the stub should be fine. most of the MII should be ok. its just the MII tubular control arms i need worry about. Saying they need to be 4mill and all the fatman fails he is aware of has been related to this.

The hudson is a unibody and the front set up doesn't look like it will play nice with out a whole front stub.
Im wanting to go new, not mess about with old jag, HQ or what ever and then find out i need recondition it all.
Fatmans seems the only ones i have found that cater to Hudson.

There webpage for control arms says they are “New larger diameter 1 inch x .188 DOM American steel tubing” (ref link) (so near 5mm)
Crossmembers are 5/16 wall SAE 1018 steel material. (ref link – catalogue pg3)
link to Mustang II Frame Stubs page

Images of the actual front stub on hudsons.



Multi page build thread of someone installing a fatman front on a 49 – he just got the stub then used other components on it.
www.hetclub.org/forum/discussion/114985/new-front-stub-frame-in-my-49-brougham/p1

My Build threads:
www.hetclub.org/forum/discussion/169014/49-nailhead-hudson
www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/threads/49-hudson-nailhead.1028675/

Its an expensive setup. one i don't want to get then find i cant use any of it.

So i need advice, ideas and clarification.
Is my cert chap correct? its just the control arms i need worry about?
Could i use the stub and then a Heidts?

also is there a link to LVVTA approved venders/manufactures?

oh also Seat belts. the car currently has lap belts up front.
Will these be ok for cert? or do i need full over the shoulder jobbies?
The old timer i got the car from said he thinks they got installed mid 60s. As they didnt have them when he was younger.

The car has been off the road since 1969 in a shed and reg has lapsed (although i have permission to reuse old black plates) so needs re vined etc.

Sorry for the long post and thanks for your time.

Alex

[Justin]

Hi Alex

Sounds like a cool project!

Stub axles/Uprights:
I'm not familiar with Fatman stubs - if you can provide some more details about them I'll provide some more feedback. I'd be interested in it's manufacturing method, i.e. is it forged, cast steel, separate pressed-in spindle pin, material grades and any other relevant information. It's quite likely that Fatman just re-sell stubs from a generic manufacturer, so it's quite possible that these will be OK.

Fatman Fabrications IFS:
The Fatman IFS comes in two main configurations; cast a-arm and tubular a-arm. The issues we've encountered in the past are;

Cast stainless arms:
When LVVTA sought details about these arms, Fatman only confirmed they are made from cast stainless steel, and that they are made in China. Fatman did not know actually who made them as they dealt with an agent, not the manufacturer. Due to this lack of information, there was nothing to confirm that the foundry has quality controls in place to ensure conformity of production, and on that basis, as the a-arms are critical components, LVVTA and the Technical Advisory Committee won't approve these arms. If this situation changes and Fatman supply us with adequate information, this can be reviewed.

Tubular arms:
The LVV requirement for critical components is for all welds to meet the requirements from Tables 6.1 or 6.2 of the AS/NZS 1554.1 Standard for non-destructive testing. This is a test for cracking but is also a weld inspection to check for porosity, cold-lap, lack of fusion and other weld defects, and also to ensure correct weld 'design', for example that the weld size is suitable for the material thickness. The a-arms which were tested did not meet the standard and had numerous weld defects, and so the arms needed to be re-welded. This was done by an Auckland hot rod/race-car fabrication shop (Terry's Chassis Shoppe), however I am aware that this wasn't cost effective, and re-welding isn't ideal, so since that time arms have been jigged and re-manufactured.
We published a small article about this in one of our Newsletters - you can read it on page 5 of LVV Newsletter #49 here; lvvta.org.nz/documents/newsletters_pub/LVVTA_Newsletter_2014_Jan-July.pdf

The NZ Hobby Car Technical Manual also specifies minimum a-arm material sizes - you'll need to make sure that the tube sizes meet or exceed the requirement specified in the manual.

A custom IFS is also required to go through a design approval process to ensure that it's suitable for road use in NZ - here's a link to an Infosheet which shows what you need to do to go through that process; lvvta.org.nz/documents/infosheets/LVVTA_Info_01_2016_LVV_Custom_Independent_Front_and_Rear_Suspension_Approval_Application_Guide.pdf
And here's a link to the application form; lvvta.org.nz/documents/suplementary_information/Form_4B_Design_Approval_Application.pdf

LVV Recognised IFS Manufacturers:
The IFS assemblies which aren't required to go through the above TAC process on a case-by-case basis are;
Rods by Reid; Terry's Chassis Shoppe; Total Cost Involved (TCI); Alston’s Chassis Works; Art Morrison; Heidts; Kugel; Factory Five; and Caterham.

Seatbelts:
There are some situations where lap-and-diagonal seat-belts are required; your build does sound like it'll fit into that category - here's what the Hobby Car Technical Manual says;

14.31 Seatbelts in old vehicles and scratch-built vehicles
14.31.1
A web-clamp inertia reel retractor lap and diagonal seatbelt must
be fitted for each front outboard seating position, and a lap
seatbelt must be fitted for each front centre seating position and
each rear seating position, in:
(a) every scratch-built low volume vehicle built after 2003,
both with and without a fixed roof; and
(b) a modified production low volume vehicle, both with and
without a fixed roof, that has undergone significant
mechanical modifications, carried out for the specific
purpose of achieving a substantial performance
improvement, and thereby changing the vehicle’s driving
characteristics to more that of a modern vehicle.

In your case, you'll be improving engine power (performance), brakes, steering and suspension, so there's a reasonable expectation that you'll be 'achieving a substantial performance
improvement, and thereby changing the vehicle’s driving characteristics to more that of a modern vehicle'. Having said that, there's unlikely to be a major issue with installing upper anchorages, as the pillar 'looks' to be fairly substantial.

Vehicle structure:
Another thing to bear in mind is that these cars were a very early monocoque or unibody vehicle, as although they're probably fine with a comparatively low-powered flat-head 6, the change to a more powerful V8, and heavier-duty suspension, the structure might require some additional strengthening - having said that, it might also be just fine - your certifier will be the best person to make that call.

I hope this helps - feel free to get in touch if you have any more questions.

Justin