Build questions.

[mackaz]

We are building a scratch built rod based on a Mitsubishi L200 chassis. It has a Holden 3.3 engine and auto running to the standard Mitzi diff. Rear spring eye has been relocated 200mm forward and custom main leaves built.All other steering, brakes, and suspension are rebuilt/new 100% OEM Mitsubishi components
Body consists of the cowl section of a 1922 Buick (widened 200mm to cover chassis) and the rest is to be scratch built from pictures. I intend for the finished product to be a 4 seater tub (no roof) with no doors. (Basically a 4 seater T Bucket but steel)
We are at the stage where we are about to start the body, and are at a loss to what seat belts we are to run. Basically we have No pillar to mount to, the body cant be high enough to anchor a belt mount to (the body sides will need to be too high and vehicle wont be able to be exited safely) and we cannot run a roll cage because it will hinder rear passenger exit. This is all in accordance with our interpretation of the HCM.
Our local hot rod guru in Whangarei (Tony Henwood) says that our only option is lap belts. Is that correct? We don't want to go blazing into the body only to have to tear it apart.
Thanks for any responses in advance.
Deon

[Justin]

Hi Deon

Your vehicle is destined to become a scratch-built vehicle, which means it will essentially be a 'new car'. There are no relaxations on the seatbelt requirements for a new scratch-built vehicle - this is how the requirements read;

HCTM
14.31 Seatbelts in old vehicles and scratch-built vehicles
14.31.1
A web-clamp inertia reel retractor lap and diagonal seatbelt must be fitted for each front outboard seating position, and a lap seatbelt must be fitted for each front centre seating position and each rear seating position, in:
(a) every scratch-built low volume vehicle built after 2003, both with and without a fixed roof.

The useful information section in the HCTM also explains this a little further;

Seatbelts in open scratch-built cars In the past, open vehicles, or to be more precise vehicles with no permanent structure beyond a point 500 mm (20”) upward from the intersection of the seat base and the seat back (in other words, no fixed structural roof), didn’t have to be fitted with lap and diagonal seatbelts. When the new LVV Standard for Seatbelt Anchorages was developed a few years ago, it was agreed that in the case of a new scratch-built vehicle built after 2003, lap and diagonal seatbelts must be fitted for each front outboard seating position. This sometimes necessitates building in some framing to take the upper anchorages, but within the context of building a car from scratch, it’s not a big deal.

I hope this helps

Justin

[mackaz]

Mar 27, 2012 8:40:46 GMT 12 Justin said:

Hi Deon

Your vehicle is destined to become a scratch-built vehicle, which means it will essentially be a 'new car'. There are no relaxations on the seatbelt requirements for a new scratch-built vehicle - this is how the requirements read;

HCTM
14.31 Seatbelts in old vehicles and scratch-built vehicles
14.31.1
A web-clamp inertia reel retractor lap and diagonal seatbelt must be fitted for each front outboard seating position, and a lap seatbelt must be fitted for each front centre seating position and each rear seating position, in:
(a) every scratch-built low volume vehicle built after 2003, both with and without a fixed roof.

The useful information section in the HCTM also explains this a little further;

Seatbelts in open scratch-built cars In the past, open vehicles, or to be more precise vehicles with no permanent structure beyond a point 500 mm (20”) upward from the intersection of the seat base and the seat back (in other words, no fixed structural roof), didn’t have to be fitted with lap and diagonal seatbelts. When the new LVV Standard for Seatbelt Anchorages was developed a few years ago, it was agreed that in the case of a new scratch-built vehicle built after 2003, lap and diagonal seatbelts must be fitted for each front outboard seating position. This sometimes necessitates building in some framing to take the upper anchorages, but within the context of building a car from scratch, it’s not a big deal.

I hope this helps

Justin

So essentially it sounds like the height of the body is going to make this rod look absolutely stupid. Good on ya LVVTA....

[Justin]

Hi Deon

Seatbelt laws are a tricky thing - they're something which although many people seem to detest, are a necessity in this safety conscious day-and-age. I think that the swipe at LVVTA is a little unnecessary - we take our responsibilities very seriously - we need to do this so that NZTA, the Transport Ministry, and ultimately the government has confidence in us to administer the modified vehicle system for them in NZ. Lets face it, it's not an old car - it's a brand new car, so should be treated as such. Shouldn't we be grateful for LVVTA - mass produced car makers have to fit multiple air bags, stability control systems, and they also have to crash test their cars to be able to even sell ONE - we only have to fit seatbelts - how easy is that!

The alternative to our present system may not be worth thinking about - take a look at the problems they're facing in Australia, and even the USA, where the lack of a decent system has left them in the position of being at the mercy of the bureaucrats - luckily our system is run by enthusiasts. Incidentally, the Australians and Americans are very envious of our system here.

Back to the topic - if you take a look at any open topped vehicle built after 2003, it will have upper anchorages there for lap and diagonal seatbelt anchorages. I've seen loads of them, and they don't look stupid to me. There are plenty of options when you're building a car from scratch - many AC Cobra replicas have the retractors mounted centrally in the car, other use the 'as close as is practically achievable' clause (also in the HCTM', and fit the anchorages as close as they are able.

In a nutshell, everybody who want's to build an open car is in the same boat - and all seem to have no problem building upper anchorages in to their design.

If you'd like me to put you in touch with a pro car builder who can give you some help or advice, give me a call and I'll put you in touch.

Here's a few examples;




images.trademe.co.nz/photoserver/58/128476658_full.jpg[/img]



Cheers, Justin

[mackaz]

Sorry for my heated reply. Yes due to my choice of build being a 4 seater. But none of the above examples are 4 seaters. The last example is the only one clear enough to glean any detail from, and that would be deemed illegal due to it being a protrusion that will hinder entry and exit. I have scoured the net for examples from the net and found squat.
This is what the car is meant to look like

This is what I want it to look like,well, kind of,


If you offer me some suggestions it would be most appreciated.
Thanks

[Justin]

Hi Deon

Centrally mounted retractors and upper anchorages may be your best bet here, otherwise some kind of perimeter frame would need to be built around the inside edges of the body - this could be done, as it could be padded and hidden by the upholstery. There is quite a lot of info in the HCTM about framing out both steel and 'glass bodies, so that would be a good starting point.
If you let me know what area you're from I'll try to point you in the direction of someone who may be able to help.

Cheers, Justin